{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/hq3rv0f89r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Satan in the Pulpit, 1982-03-01"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/053/original/cropped-marmia-logo-copy1.png?1586173104","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://marmia.libraryhost.com/repositories/2/archival_objects/5171"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1982-03-01 (Broadcast)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["On tape label: City Line #3 (Container Summary)","Jaki Hall and Dan Henson discuss the Black church with Staunton Perkins, author of \"Satan in the Pulpit\" and Reverend Olin P. Loyd of the Mt. Lebanon Baptist Church. Tea Montier interviews Larry Fitzsimmons of the Seven-Up Corporation about Operation Push. (Scope and Content Note)","Be advised that this video may contain sensitive, triggering, and offensive language and content. (Content warning)","Thank you to the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture for the digitization of this item. (Funding Note)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["1 U-matic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["WJZ-CTYLN-001-005 (Identifier)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Series Title"]},"value":{"en":["City Line"]}}],"summary":{"en":["On tape label: City Line #3","Jaki Hall and Dan Henson discuss the Black church with Staunton Perkins, author of \"Satan in the Pulpit\" and Reverend Olin P. Loyd of the Mt. Lebanon Baptist Church. Tea Montier interviews Larry Fitzsimmons of the Seven-Up Corporation about Operation Push.","Be advised that this video may contain sensitive, triggering, and offensive language and content.","Thank you to the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture for the digitization of this item."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["MARMIA"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["MARMIA"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/053/original/cropped-marmia-logo-copy1.png?1586173104","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/203/678/small/thumbnail_203678_1691447497.jpg?1691447525","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20230807-555-mwl7pi.mp4"]},"duration":3697.217,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/203/678/small/thumbnail_203678_1691447497.jpg?1691447525","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-marmia.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/203/678/original/open-uri20230807-555-mwl7pi.mp4?1691447261","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3697.217,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_WJZ-CTYLN-001-005.mp4 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Good afternoon. I'm Jackie Hall. And I'm Dan Hanson. Author Stanton Perkins says that the black church is stealing in the name of the Lord, and he has a plan that recommends major changes in the way that the church distributes its wealth. He'll be with us live today on city Land. And Tea Monitor will have information as to how viewers can do business with 7UP. Ten Watts will feature Lakeside on the entertainment page. That's all coming up next on City Line. Stay with us. From gaza city Line. I'm Jackie Hall. And I'm Dan Hanson, an exciting and very controversial show today, Jackie, to say the least. We have author Stanton Perkins on. He's written the book Satan in the Pulpit. And I listen to a lot of comment, a lot of concern from black ministers and black church people. We're excited about that. In fact, I think all of Baltimore City is excited about this show. In addition to Stanton Perkins, we're going to have the Reverend Olan Boyd of the Mount Lebanon Baptist Church. He'll be here to talk about his concerns relative to that issue that's raised in the book itself. But before we get to that, we will go now to the news with t montero. Good afternoon, t. Good afternoon, jackie. Dan, topping today's black newscast, south africa, the african continent only remaining country that is not black ruled has come under heavy international pressure and sanctions against its official policy of racial segregation. Apartheid apartheid forbids blacks to vote or hold office and severely restricts education, marriage, occupation, pay and where blacks may live. However, just recently, despite a split in his party, South African Prime Minister Peter both has promised to reveal plans that would allow minorities to share power with South African whites for the first time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=50.97,173.08"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Already, the mere idea of dismantling the system of an exclusively white government has cost both a support. Blacks make up 70% of the 28.5 million South Africans, and coloreds represent 2.6 million South Africans. Yet the National Party in power continuously for the past 34 years accepts black political expression in limited forms only and removed it from the voter's rolls. In 1953, the trial of three black inmates accused of stabbing James Earl Ray 22 times while in prison last year was postponed this week for two months. That's because their attorney was late showing up for court. Isaiah, again to Chicago attorney, says he was late because he received missed directions on how to get to the rural courthouse from a Knoxville airport. Ray is serving a life term at Brushy Mountain State Prison for the assassination of civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Junior. Divorced women who are also single parents are needed for a study at Temple University in Philadelphia. The project is directed by an assistant professor of psychology who wants to examine family relationships and coping strategies among black and white divorced women. One of the issues to be studied is what role do social service agencies, self-help groups, family and friends play in helping white and minority women handle the stress of a divorce? Only a small amount of social science research of this nature includes mention of minorities. Meanwhile, here in Baltimore, an ambitious effort is underway to increase the number of registered black voters who will participate in the September primaries. Sam Daniels, grand master of the Prince Hall Lodge, headed up a morning meeting of key community representatives this week, stressing the need to get out the vote. Daniels says the Prince Hall Masons are committed to getting out at least half of the registered 200,000 black voters here in the city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=173.86,291.64"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Carefully, they are circulating pledge sheets for black voters to sign, promising that they will vote on September the 14th. On July 17th, 1982, the 7UP Company and Operation Push entered into a five year trade agreement that is supposed to have a $61 million impact on black and other minority communities. The trade agreement does not represent economic aid, rather, it serves to foster economic trade. Already, full page ads can be seen in the Baltimore Afro-American newspapers. The five year plan includes a seven up soft drink franchise and a $10 million guaranteed capital accumulation program for minority entrepreneurs. It is the third agreement Bush has negotiated with large US corporations within the last year. Houblon, a food and spirits company, signed a $360 million five year pact, and Coca-Cola has agreed to spend some $34 million within the next year. Joining me now is Larry Fitzsimmons, a representative of the seven up bottlers of Baltimore. Thank you for joining us. Mr. Fitzsimmons. Thank you for having me. This agreement signed by Mr. Frankel, president of 7UP, and Reverend Jesse Jackson of Operation Push, what impact will that have here on the Baltimore market? Now, the covenant involves a mutual moral commitment on the part of the 7UP and Operation PUSH to work toward eliminating social imbalances and injustices in the Baltimore area and all the cities throughout the United States. We look forward to increase in sales in our inner city area and while at the same time increasing also helping those for better employment, more banking, etc. with them in a minority areas. Are you currently doing any business with blacks in the city? Yes, we are. We're doing a lot of great business in the inner city area and we're looking forward to a 30% increase in the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=292.3,401.44"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Inner city area at the end of this five year program. Dan, let me just ask Mr. Fitzsimmons, what kind of business will you be doing with minority business people? What we'll be doing, sir, is doing 15% of our banking with minority area groups, advertising agencies, employment agencies and any and all services that we look for in the inner city area. We will be basically looking into the black and minority type operations that that would include the one second, Jack. That would include construction companies as well as suppliers. Exactly. Suppliers, construction companies, automobile rental companies. Wherever we are planning to spend money and do business, we hope to do it more with the minority areas. How can those black enterprises that are interested in doing business with 7UP get in touch with you? And what is the proper procedure? Initially in the Baltimore area here, they may call our office over on Edmonson Avenue at seven four, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven. And from there we'll give them the information necessary to contact the headquarters and the coordinator of this whole program for further extension. Extensive information. What kind of entry requirements are necessary before somebody even contacts you? Is there a certain amount of time in business or a certain type of business? There's no no limitations whatsoever. We want to analyze and evaluate all requests. FITZSIMMONS Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. That concludes our newscast, then. Coming up next on City Line City, Tim Watts. We'll have the entertainment page after these messages. Today. Tim Lots features that supergroup out of Ohio lakeside and he gives us the latest on tpy Teddy Pendergrass. Here's Tim. Good afternoon. Welcome to the entertainment page. This week we'll update you on what singer Teddy Pendergrass is up to and we'll look at his new album.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=401.55,607.11"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Plus, we'll have Lakeside as the music video presentation. First, here's what's going on in Baltimore tonight. It's an evening for fans of tight harmony. The Organ Rich concert series presents the Barbershop Singers Festival at 8 p.m. tomorrow at 730. The Baltimore Theater Project will present singer Ethel Ennis. That's at Mount Royal Station on Wednesday, August 4th at 8 p.m.. Channel 13 Zone Harbor Lights Music Festival will present the Righteous Brothers. That's at the Pier six Pavilion. Finally, this weekend, August 6th and seventh, will be a very special weekend at the Painters Mill Star Theater. Ashford and Simpson will be appearing both nights with the Manhattans. You can reserve tickets by phone. Call 3630810. Several months ago, music fans around the world were saddened by the car accident singer Teddy Pendergrass was involved in. It left Teddy paralyzed from the waist down and he has partial movement in his arms and hands. He entered the music business like many black performers through the church and while he was a teenager, became a licensed minister. His first few years as a professional performer were spent as a drummer with several bands in and around the Philadelphia area. Then Teddy joined a group called Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes. That group scored several top five records with Teddy singing lead tunes like Bad Luck, The Love I Lost And If You Don't Know Me by Now were all major hits. Teddy became dissatisfied with his career with the Blue Notes, although it was his voice that was featured on the songs. He wasn't getting the credit. So Teddy began a solo career, and now several gold albums later, Teddy's career is on hold. Like many artists, when they go in the studio, they record more tunes than are released.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=607.86,710.55"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So recently, Philadelphia International Records took some of Teddy's material that hadn't been heard and made an album. It's called This One's For You. The first single from the album has already had big success on the national charts. This gift of life is a gift. Hey. Up. Over everything. Gift. Anyone wishing to contact today can do so at this address. Teddy Bear Productions 2400 Chestnut Street, Suite 2208 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 191003. That brings us to our music video presentation for the week. Lakeside is in the spotlight. This group became popular in their hometown of Dayton, Ohio, and at the beginning they were known as the Ohio Lakeside Express when they felt they had outgrown the hometown scene. They went after the big game. They rented a U-Haul trailer, packed up their instruments and headed for Hollywood. When they got to L.A.. After traveling expenses, they had $70 between them. So it was back to small club dates in the Southern California area so they could live. The group gained the attention of Solo Records, a black owned company, and signed a recording contract. They added four members, making a total of nine and went on to become one of the most popular dance music groups around. Ironically, one of their biggest hits to date is a ballad, a tune made famous by the Beatles. Here's Lakeside with I Want To Hold Your Hand. Tell you something. So that's something. One of. Your head. Your. Go. Singing with the oldies. Please stay with. I'm. Finally, our community events. Tonight, the African-American Women's Political Caucus will have a champagne sip at Gallery 409409 North Charles Street, 5 p.m. to eight. They're asking for a $5 donation. On Tuesday, August 3rd, Browns Memorial Baptist Church will host a candidates forum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=711.21,951.15"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They'll have a panel discussion which will consist of the candidates in the 40th legislative District race. The church is at 3514 West Belvidere Avenue and they start at 8 p.m.. Don't forget, if you have some community events that you'd like our City Line audience to know about, or if you'd like to be a part of our studio audience, contact us by mail. Here's the address. City Life Care of WJZ ETV Television Hill in Baltimore. Two one, two, one, one. That's this week's entertainment page. Next week, I'll have a live report for you from the West Indian Festival. My name is Tim Watts. Back to Jackie. Thank you, Jim. Sitting in the pulpit is next when City Line returns. The church has always been one of the most influential forces in the lives of black people. But there are some who now believe that the black church is misleading its flock. We got filled with the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and we talk into glory to God. Somebody seeking them. How you got into that? Hubert We see now. Thank you, Jesus. Pioneer Ministers were most active in the agitation for freedom in this world, although they couched their words in the actions of angels. Most of them were self-supporting as their congregations were too poor to support them. They worked with the various abolition societies, took part in the underground railroad movement, and were prime movers in the so-called convention movement in general. They were the spokesman for the free blacks in the North. But is there a decline in the image and effectiveness of the black church? The book Satan in the Pulpit states that the church is stealing in the name of the Lord and is the number one rip off in the black community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=952.14,1196.36"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you want to get pray for a ride like I went to church one evening, right. And I wanted to get pray for because I was having problems. This lady tells me if I put $20 in the envelope, you know, and bring it up, I can get pray for praise free. I totally disagree with black churches doing anyway, because most of them is saying one thing and doing it totally opposite. They're saying like, we're going to do this. And then when you look for it to be done, it don't get done. Yeah, the churches are helping the poor quite a bit. They take up clothing, they give out food. They all they started a co-op to help the poor people. And I think they could do a lot more than they are doing, you know, if if they all would organize more, better together. Their role in society right now is not an economic aspect of community. They should more or less keep on with the political aspects because politics is about in the world. You see, you know, different boards and different things is happening in church as far as hypocrisy, money being appropriated for different causes instead of building the kingdom of God the way the Lord want us to do it. They have food co-ops, all kind of programs, all kind of services available for women, the sick, and they give out free clothing and free shoes. They all grab it, but they're not contributing, not net thing to not near neighborhood. And they want you to contribute this in your little envelope. My son is in debt. And your little envelope? My son's. And where's the money going? I mean, we tell our churches all this is all this is the black church is now is free enterprise.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1197.44,1289.45"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anybody want any any way they pass. If you make a dollar, they going to make it, but they're not going to contribute to nothing. No, the last man on that tape made quite an indictment. And it seems to be the same kind of thesis that Stanton Perkins has placed in his book, Satan in the Pulpit. He's joining us now on City Line. Welcome. Thank you. Is this basically the underlying theme of your book that the black church really is not doing enough for black people? That's basically the theme of it. I need to make a statement prior to the number one. I truly believe in God and I believe in the black church. I think the 65,000 black churches in the United States have a golden opportunity to bring blacks to the forefront of America in a different kind of way. And I've got some serious problems with economics, not necessarily with religion per se, but I've got some problems with the economics, with the black church. What are those problems? Well, when you look at the 65,000 black churches in the United States that collect a billion, $500 million a year out of the black community and basically put it back in brick and mortar. Now, this, again, is not an indictment on all churches. It's impossible for me to speak on all churches. But when I look at 35 million black folks in this country and the kind of shape that we are and where we are and look at our religious teaching, which is a non positive kind of approach, I've just got a serious feeling that that they're they're not leading their flock, God's people in the right direction. Mr. Perkins, you make some very serious charges against the black church in general.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1290.35,1388.62"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You say, for example, that the church is worth $10 billion plus in real estate alone, not counting all the assets in cash flow, and that the black church essentially does not use those assets for the betterment of the community. That's a very generalized statement. Well, not when you really look into it. See, the reason that a black community becomes a different kind of community is because economics leaves that community. It leaves that community with the white entrepreneur, store owner and the foreigners that are now into our area and our stores owning most of the stores in our community in the black church. They're taking money out of the community but not putting it back in the when they put it back, they put it in brick and mortar, bigger, prettier churches. They call them factories. You you you say at one point in your book that that the church does practically nothing in terms of enhancing the economic growth, development and strength of the black community. Instead, she remains in a state of stagnation, ignorance, backwardness, narcissism, misdirection and isolation with a multibillion dollar self. You read that accurately. It's straight, straight out of the book. That's right. Would you explain that if they were to take that billion $500 million and provide jobs? See, it's difficult to give somebody spiritual who when they can't buy food and put it back in our community in buying some of the business, it's no cent own business or even property that the church should own for profit enterprises. Of course, the Catholic Church is the number one landlord in the country and they own more business than anybody else in the world. Well, you said in essence, that the black church is also a fairly large landlord.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1389.52,1482.67"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not so sure that the I mean, what is the Catholic Church, for example, do to to assist in the economic development of its people? The Catholic Church owns Dr. Pepper in the United States alone, a number what they're doing to assist their people. The Catholic Church have a tendency to keep people very poor, too. I'm not I'm not endorsing what they're doing in that in that sense. But I'm saying they are. And reinvesting money. See, the problem is that that we do not have any jobs. Okay. Mm hmm. To give a person spiritual food is one thing, but if you provide them with a job and an opportunity to make a living, you don't have to. Number one, give them food. You don't have to give out clothing. And I don't think that's really what God meant when he when he talks about us taking care of our our own as far as providing food and etc., if we would take that money. For instance, there are 30 million blacks in United States that basically three times a day, if they'd one piece of bread three times a day, that's 90 million slices of bread. That's 32 billion slices of bread a year. If we could own a Wonder Bread and a brand factory. That's right. And then besides that, not only owning a bakery, a bread factory, as you call it, but how about the black farmer who who is about to lose his land, are losing their land very rapidly? We could grow the wheat. We're talking about providing jobs and providing a future. I'd like to be able to walk out of a black church and feel good, not only from the singing, but I'd like to have some direction where I can feed my family, where I can be become a productive person rather than nonproductive person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1483.12,1576.12"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Does this then get the black church into the whole secular development of people? Because it appears that if you're saying that the church is doing a good job at meeting the religious needs of the spiritual needs of people? Isn't that the role of the church? No, the role is just are you asking that now to become secular by going into business? No, the role is the role as the sort of the total man you can't serve. As I said before, you can't give a person spiritual food. They can't buy food. My personality changes drastically when my pocket is empty. What about the role of this church? The role is the church. The role of the church is not. The role of the church is to provide spiritual leadership, spiritual guidance, and that you believe the black church is doing to a degree. The reason I don't think it's doing it totally because they're leading them down the wrong road. They're leading that pie in the sky concept. God's going to take care your problems. God is already taking care of your problems because he's giving you the ability to make decisions. The greatest gift he's ever given anybody is the mind. But we are being programed to to be nonproductive kind of people. And while we're being nonproductive, everybody else is stealing the land and everything else and all the other opportunities. Now, in your book, there is one heading that you have in here that says that the church is stealing in the name of the Lord. That's right. So you're also accusing the church of stealing in the name of the misappropriate funds that comes under the heading of stealing and misappropriate. If you take in funds and not put it back to work for the people that you're taking it from their churches that have building funds.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1576.72,1669.29"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I in Washington, for instance, I don't know the figures here. There's over $130 million of black folks money sitting in white banks and building fund accounts when there are people in the congregation on welfare or can barely pay their rent over the pay their electricity. Do you have a plan of action developed in terms of the ten year plan? You would have the black church? Oh, no question in that. Not only do I criticize one segment of it, but there is a ten year plan. It's a very basic plan. The first look, why don't we. Why don't we get to the ten year plan where we come back after these messages? The reverend, all and more will be joining us. He's with the Mt. Lebanon Baptist Church, and he'll be coming back to discuss this a little bit more. If you'd like to talk to our guest, call 481 1313 this year with life. That's 481 1330. After these messages. Joining us now is the reverend all the moy he's with mt. Lebanon baptist Church here in baltimore and he's taking time off from his congregation on Sunday afternoon to come and give us his reaction to satan in the pulpit by author Stanton Perkins. Welcome. And I'd like to just just give you that question. What is your reaction to the the the indictment of the black church as elicited and Satan in the pulpit? Well, the first thing I want to say is that, um, the book is, uh, has been written in generalized terms, and I would like to take the time that I have to deal with specifics. For example, the ten year plan, Mr. Perkins offers a suggestion about a ten year plan. There's absolutely nothing in that plan that has not been in the plan, which was offered by the National Committee of Black Churchmen as far back as 19 7666.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1669.66,1858.19"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why don't we segregate the discussion on the ten year plan for a second and give Mr. Perkins an opportunity a few minutes from now to to to discuss the plan? But but but particularly the charges that he has made that the church is stealing the name of the Lord, that the church is the biggest rip off in the black community, that the the only people, for example, who have big cars in the black community are pimps and preachers. Okay. I want to respond to all three of, um. That the church is the biggest rip off in the community. I want to raise the question with him. How many is he talking about? What percentage of churches are rip off? I'm not here to defend all of the churches because we've all had 12 disciples and he couldn't defend all of them. He couldn't keep all of those boys in line. And therefore, I'm not here to defend all of the churches. It is my position that the majority of the churches are doing business for the community and for the benefit of society. Let me take one example, and that has to do with the harbor bank that's going to be opened here in Baltimore soon. Black churches have invested in that nearly $200,000. One church alone has invested $55,000 into the Harbor bank. That says that. What Mr. Perkins suggesting is already being done here in the Baltimore area. Okay, let's make some. I want to say a word about the cause. Can I say a word about this? Oh, certainly. I can count at least five Cadillacs in the Mt. Lebanon church, and I can count at least five Continentals in the Mt. Lebanon Church. Well, they all don't belong to the preachers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1860.38,1954.34"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I wonder whether these people will accept the idea that they must be pimps. But we must admit, though, that many, many of the clergy do have rather expensive and rather large cars. Maybe not every one, but they certainly go in for the Mercedes and the Cadillacs and some of the other expensive cars. Jackie, you are correct. The Lord says that he is come, Jesus will come, that we may have life and have it more abundantly. It means the pulpit and the pew. And if you drive by any any church this Sunday morning, by any church, you will see a number of big cars both belonging to the pulpit and to the pews. And I endorse that. Let's take a call from one of our viewers. Go ahead, please. You're on City Line. Hello. Yes, go ahead and ask, does he belong to a church? Yes, I do. What's your father in Washington? I belong to Israel Baptist Church. And and I'm affiliated with Ebenezer Baptist Church in in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. Oh, praise the Lord up in North Carolina. But I just want to know these things, because usually people that work at the church were think there was a lot of yours. And my pastor does probably say it is an adult book. And I think that it doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do what was going on in the pulpit. Can I ask you a question? Finished? Is anybody in your congregation on welfare? Sure. There are lots of people I'm sure with. I can't. I don't know them, but I'm pretty sure they are. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. What? Let's. Let's get back to the ten year plan and a term in terms of that plan. What would you recommend that the black church should be doing at this point? Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=1955.06,2050.929"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are a couple of things. The very first part of the ten year plan deals with total unity. I suggest that the church, number one, ascertain from all members of their congregation their fields of expertise, and then do a roster of it, because not only do you have the Aretha Franklin that can sing in the church and a lady who can play the organ, but you have an accountant that sits in a church, a plumber, a carpenter, a babysitter, a seamstress, etc.. And then what they ought to be doing is preaching that when we need services, let's don't go to Mr. Bernstein, go to Brother Jones, go to Sister Sally, etc.. What that does is just keeps the money within our church family. So it's just supporting them. That's one thing it does. The other thing it does, it creates employment. It keeps money within our community. And it also makes the church richer because the money stays in, then give more to the church. And that's the first point of the plan. That's the very first one. The other part is that I that I strongly suggest that all black churches. All fraternal organizations, etc. Take all of the money out of the white financial institutions and put them into the black banks. Okay. The very reason I hear people saying that what black banks can't give us a service, I guess can't because we keep giving the money to somebody else. We can't give our money to the white man fast enough. And as I look at new churches being built across this country, black churches, I find white contractors building. We built this country and I'm sure we can build churches. Let's take a question from one of our our members of the audience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2051.389,2141.66"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, sir. Go right ahead. Reverend Silver, Concord Baptist Church said a part of the News Association outside of Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, comes from Halifax County. All right. Now, first of all, I want to say and I'm going to try to back it up, I think that your title of the book is misleading with regard to what you put in the book. Now, the other thing I want to say, I want to ask you a question. Are you familiar with what is going on in North Carolina? The greatest, most outstanding convention of Baptists in this nation. And that is they have a $1,700,000 budget. They are building a $2 million in Raleigh. Besides Shore University, a new headquarter building was the other one was too small. Are you familiar with the first part of the Friendship Baptist Church in Charlotte? Late Coleman Carey pastored it and was written up in in several magazines. Are you familiar with the work of Miracle? The miracle work that the Lord did at Ebenezer Baptist Church, which you say that you are associated with, Reverend Walker, know him personally, and the work that was done there and the number of people that were hired there. Are you familiar with the fact that you have associations in North Carolina that have 3 million worth, $3 million? The Waco Association, with regard to housing projects, are you familiar with the number of churches in North and in Fayetteville, North Carolina, that Dr. Edwards and Dr. Aaron Johnson that have housing projects and what have you? What about all of this? Are you familiar with all of this? And of course, what is going on by Dr. Dudley on the Council and Rocky Mount? Yeah, I'm familiar with that. All right. They still not providing job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2142.2,2256.95"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All right. That $900,000 church. All right, then. Let me ask you another question. Are you familiar, then, with the push organization that that Jesse Jackson is about and what he has done with regard to the 7UP and the other some other beverages? And now they're going toward the the the industry for cars. Are you familiar with that? Yes. Are you familiar with what is happening here? Excuse us for interrupting, but I hear you building the case. But I'm trying to get to that point that you want to stress here. All right. Then my point I want to stress with how do you justify naming that book that now and I ask this question because of this, you make an indictment against the preacher and the word of God says, touch not my non anointed and do my prophet no harm. And I understand that you were with the movement and civil rights. For what Have you have you been there in Riverside? One last question I want to ask. What do you do for a living with regard to the business you had in up until a few weeks ago in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina? Is it true? That's a lot of concerns. Is it true that you had asked the question that you run? All right. Yes. Answer the question. Thank you, sir. Okay. Let me respond. Let me respond a couple of things. And what you quoted from the Bible about touching the anointed. I have no problems with that. I just have some problems with most of them being anointed. That's number one. Number two is that I I'm aware of what Jesse Jackson is doing. And some of it I agree with, and neither am I here to pass judgment on anybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2257.37,2362.61"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's not my responsibility. But what I am stating are facts and figures, and they do not lie. That's number one. Let me let me respond to some more. One of the things Jesse Jackson is doing is is demanding or getting companies to put blacks in top key positions. I've seriously got a problem with that, because if we've got that kind of knowledge and experience, we ought to be putting it to work for us. And we've got enough money going to the black churches. If we need that money, we can own some of the companies instead of trying to get some of our people employed. And my philosophy is we not only can pull ourselves up by own bootstraps, but we can own the company that manufactures the boots. That's where I'm coming from. I don't see why we should be second class any way, shape or form. And I know all of the kinds of things that you're mentioning. But what we're saying when we go to other people is that we need help. God did not shortchange me, and I hope you didn't shortchange. This is the great thing he ever gave you. That's all that point. Thank you for your question. We will love when we come back. When we come back on city land, we'll have the end of the answer to that question after these messages. Maintenance to say our phones are lit and we're going to try to get some more calls in. We're going to take one right now. Go ahead. You're in touch with City Line. Hello? Yes, go ahead, please. Yes. I first would like to say hello to Mr. Perkins, and I'd like to say that I back home fully and I'd also like to be very brief in saying that I find no problem in dealing with the title of the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2363.0,2531.86"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First of all, anyone who isn't affected by the title should not feel intimidated in any way, shape or form. Secondly, you know, I'd like to say that if you are talking about the earlier cars, about the ministers, which shouldn't be, let's say, a critical issue. But I think that if the ministers ministers are in fact doing the work of the Lord, that they should look not just at a 300 or 400,000 or Mercedes or whatever, but they should get at the heart of the needs of the people. And that includes all the people, not just the ones who have affluent jobs, but those who are on the welfare rolls. And I think we would be very honest if we've both admitted that the ministers look past raggedy, shabby guy coming into the church and more so at the one, you know, who is is a fool. And I like for someone, particularly the minister who attacked Mr. Perkins to deal with that. Okay. Thank you for your comments that obviously you somewhat agree with Mr. Perkins. May I just respond to it? And I think it also answers the other question. The minister asks the name of the book and was offended by it to some degree. I've learned throughout his throughout my my, my life in church that we deal with two forces in church. We either deal with God or we deal with Satan. And if you're not doing God's work, then I just have to assume you're doing somebody else. And the only other person I know involved in Satan. I think, Reverend Boyd, you've been sitting here for a while. I know you have so many comments that you like to make. Yes. This whole business about the $300 suits and all, I again, I think if husbands working while working and and all and if people can't afford a $300, I find no problem with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2532.28,2631.76"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now now I want to say a word about the idea of having churches to pool their resources and share with each other what others are doing. What I'm giving to us now is Exhibit A, you talk about what we ought to be doing. Here is what the Calvary Church is doing. What is that? Succinctly put. Succinctly put. This is called Mission Exchange is a listing of all the services that are rendered by members in that kind of location. Other members of that kind of gation can receive services from other members of that kind and get you keeping the money within the. That's one of the people in that ten year plan. The point is, this plan was not for us advanced by Mr. Perkins. That's what I want to really make clear. The National Council of Negro Churchmen advanced these kinds of ideas long time ago. And the fact of the matter is and the fact of the matter is I can demonstrate that these kinds of things that he's talking about peripherally are already in place in many instances across the nation. Mr. Perkins, let me let me let me just make make sure that we make one point here. You're not talking when you say Satan in the pulpit. You're not talking about all ministers, are you? I said from the beginning of the show that it's not indictment on a minister. My feeling is if the shoe fits, then you ought to wear it, though. And I'm not saying that I am the creator of this philosophy. All I am is another black American that's concerned about the direction of my people. The point is, if that is in progress and has been for years and if it was effective and they were truly putting it in, in effect, then we wouldn't be where we are today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2632.45,2725.15"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The next thing we've got to understand that, wow, Moses was commissioned by God to lead the Israelites to the Promised Land. He is leading them to the Promised Land. Remember, there were rebellions among the Israelites. It isn't that easy to go to the Congregation of God, a collection of ministers, and say, Come on, this is what we're going to do. It is not that easy. And I take that up with Moses. Let's let's take him. Let's take another question from Dame John Carrington. The Jewish community rallies its economic resources around the synagogue without all of this public infighting. How far are we as blacks away from the day that we can deal with our problems rather than yelling and screaming and pulling our churches and ourselves down? And what contribution does your book make to this situation? Okay. The book. Thank you. The book is based on unity, not about dividing a division. I don't want anyone to walk away from the church. I want people to get back involved with the church, but make it viable. One of the problems that we have is we sit in the pews and keep our mouth shut, and the only thing we say is Amen. We don't contribute. Neither do we question anything that's going on. And I think that's an important kind of what church you belong to. You mean they are churches where deacons and the people who run the church and their churches where the pew run the church? I would agree with. The minister, but not the church. But it's not about division. I want churches to unite. I want I believe that that the black church is a mecca and it is the most powerful institution in the black community. I think this is not the total answer to everything, but this is a direction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2725.34,2826.07"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It talks about unity. When we deal with the ten year plan, it talks about togetherness and putting our money just like the Jews, just like the Mormons, just like the Quakers, just like all the basically all the other minority so-called minority groups in this country. Okay. Thank you for your question. We're going to go to the phones again. Hello. You're in town, City Line. Go ahead. Hello? Yes. Do you have a question for our guests? Yes, I do. Go ahead, please. Hello? Go ahead. I would like to say to Mr. Perkins that he has been con. Can you please do not listen to your tell of television? I think you're getting confused. I would like to say to Mr. Perkins that he has been most kind. I happen to be married to a minister, having a minister's wife of 15 years. And my greatest sadness is when it's time for us to educate our children. We have to turn to once a private, superb education. And that is the greatest indictment of the weight of the black church that I can think of. I think it's more than a tragedy. Everybody had his own little personal fiefdom. If I run it, it's tragic that one church would build a of $100,000 buildings. That's a fact that cannot. Did you have a question long enough to do anything? Jealousy. Professional jealousy is so outrageous. Okay, our children's minds. Over to what? Thank you so much for your comments. We appreciate that of you like to respond to that? Yes, I would like to respond to that. And the whole indictment is about buildings. And I listen to people who talk about the utopian kind of approach. However, I don't see any little things in place, and that is we don't need buildings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2826.58,2920.42"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All we need to do is to bring people together. And I raised the question, where are the demonstrations of this? There is one church which has already been mentioned in Charlotte, North Carolina, and has a budget of $456,000. It gave $23,000 to 41 different projects and on and on and on. The point that I really want to make without the large congregation, where will the resource come from to do what these people are talking about doing? You have to have a place to get them together in order to organize them. But I think that they are most of us in this audience, whether it's the studio audience or the viewing audience, they would certainly agree that we are we either build huge edifices or we move the huge edifices that other ethnic groups have moved out of and that within the certain circumference of the church itself are suffering people. Now, isn't the point really that, yes, a percentage of this money has always been used to do good, but the vast majority of this money does not go back to the people? Isn't that really the point? This is not the case. C.D. Coleman says in his discussion, or maybe to Jones in his discussion in his book, Black Theology or Theology of Hope, he said that the black church has been the center of black life and that the black church has been the institution which has kept black people on their feet. You can say that it's changed, though, haven't you? Well, you know, you want to finish and this is and this is absolutely true. When you talk about a church receiving 1%, 1% of the black population's income, the black church has done more with that 1% than any other group in the black community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=2921.29,3025.03"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I would like to raise the question about the whole entertainment world. How much money do black folk put into the entertainment world? That's one question. That's how much of the world put back in. But let's let's stick now with that. That's not the point. And I totally disagree, because the proof I don't have to sit here and justify the proof go to in most black churches and look at the community and look at the condition of the community. You know, the proof is there. I don't have to verify that because it is there. I'm saying that this institution has the ability to take a problem and turn it into a unbelievable solution. Okay. And I think that the black church has a tendency to look at at the possibility of doing positive things and looking at them as problems rather than than than looking at it as a challenge. And I think the responsibility of the church is far greater than what it is doing. If you're going to take money, then return it. And I don't think by giving up food, by returning it, though, returning me, by giving out, see the church, number one as a family and I don't believe you or anybody else sitting here would allow one person in the family, the father or the mother, to become filthy rich while you stall. And if we are a family, let's act like a family and let's share together and let's unify. It would be a sin for me to go to somebody else for services if my brother could provide them for me. And that's exactly what we're doing. And so and so we talked about one of the ten year plan, which is buying from each other, using the services of each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=3025.51,3123.02"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And and actually, the the members of the church giving services back to the church and other members of the church. Yeah, we're not giving. I'm saying utilize if you're going to spend $50 for a plumber, Mr. Bernstein, why not spend that $50 to Mr. Jones who sits right beside you in the pew? That's what I'm talking about, creating employment. Can we get one more of the steps of the table? The other part we already discussed taking the money out of the black white financial institution. Put them in black pants, a third one and the other, you know, and dealing with the other aspects of what we need to do. We need to start uniting with other churches. If we don't have the talents and we don't have the necessary resources there, 8 to 10 churches, then let's unite. It is harder to get ten ministers together, black ministers to get a lesser to chicken dinner than anything else in the world. I defy anybody to get 1015 black ministers together to do a positive project for the community that's going to create employment and going to create that working kind of relationship. It can't. It hasn't been done. Is that true, Reverend? What I want to know, is he aware of the National Black Pastors Conference organized three years ago? And I want to know from him what's the purpose of that organization? I don't know yet. I haven't found any results. So I guess as soon as I see some results, I'll let you know. Let's take a question from from the audience. Yes, sir. I'm Wally. Be Muhammad. Master Muhammad. I. Salaam alaikum. Peace building. Salaam. I would like to know why are you all sitting here arguing about color? Is God have any color? We recognize you by color, by deed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=3123.74,3212.42"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Answer that. Yes, Perhaps God doesn't. But we live in a country that has identified us and set us aside because of our color, not because of the content of our character, but because of our color. One of the other kind of problems that I have, the 30 million blacks in the United States, there's no other ethnic group in this country that equals 30 million. Okay? But because they want us to think that we are a minority, they use black against white. I didn't invent that. That was here when I got here. The society in which we live created that. So we have a responsibility to ourselves to unite because of that. And my research, yes, I think in my research what I have found that they don't go by, that they are speaking about unity. And we were united. The people that you are speaking about, the color line, if you was united, we were united. And what and pull our resources as you're trying to do, is you speak it. So we would not need to use the color line at all. We need Israel to acknowledge and no harm get together and and do what is required like other people are doing. I have no problem. We do not have them speaking about a framework of black and white, because that's just a color we lost out. We fought against that in the sixties. I was there and I'm still here and I we what we want to do is get away from that and get in the right line, which is love one another. We don't love. We don't obey one another. We don't listen to one another. Now, you 2 minutes. That's a good point. There you have. It is on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678#t=3214.25,3305.87"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/103618/file/203678/transcript/47222/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, you are two people who are leading some people. Somehow it is on that point that we're going to have to move them in the right direction, lead them back to God. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We appreciate it. I'll leave something with you. In my meantime, we're going to take a break and we'll come back with some closing thoughts. Welcome back to City. The address if you want to get a hold of Stanton Perkins is a development corporation Post Office Box six one, two, one. Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. 278001. It's on your screen now. You can take a look at it if you want to give them a call. It's area code 9199770957. Jacqui, a terrific show today. Wow. The only thing I can say is I look at these lines, they're just still lit. I wish we could have taken more calls and it just was impossible to do more. But it was a good subject. I think it needed to be aired Whether or not we converted anyone, we don't know. But at least we raised the issues and it was good and healthy for discussion. Next week, Akila Abdullah is going to be with us to show you how to prevent razor bumps and we will have another probing discussion, but this time it will be on gun control. 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