{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/j678s4m41b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Homophobia; Cast of Mama I Want To Sing, 1986-06-08"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/053/original/cropped-marmia-logo-copy1.png?1586173104","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://marmia.libraryhost.com/repositories/2/archival_objects/5241"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1986-06-08 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["On tape label: City Line #186 (Container Summary)","Be advised that this video may contain sensitive, triggering, and offensive language and content. (Content warning)","Digitized with funding provided by the Council on Library and Information Resources' \"Digitizing Hidden Special Collections and Archives: Amplifying Unheard Voices\" grant program. (Funding note)","Jaki Hall and B.T. Bentley discuss homophobia and examine its origins, its intensification since the AIDS epidemic, and its painful, often tragic personal effects. Then they talk to Doris Troy about her story being captured in a hit musical. Guests include Carlene Cheetam, Gay and Lesbian Rights Activist; A. Billy S. Jones, from the National Coalition of Black Gays; Doris Troy, from the cast of \"Mama I Want To Sing\" (Scope and Content Note)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["1 U-matic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["WJZ-CTYLN-006-002 (Identifier)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Series Title"]},"value":{"en":["City Line"]}}],"summary":{"en":["On tape label: City Line #186","Be advised that this video may contain sensitive, triggering, and offensive language and content.","Digitized with funding provided by the Council on Library and Information Resources' \"Digitizing Hidden Special Collections and Archives: Amplifying Unheard Voices\" grant program.","Jaki Hall and B.T. Bentley discuss homophobia and examine its origins, its intensification since the AIDS epidemic, and its painful, often tragic personal effects. Then they talk to Doris Troy about her story being captured in a hit musical. Guests include Carlene Cheetam, Gay and Lesbian Rights Activist; A. Billy S. Jones, from the National Coalition of Black Gays; Doris Troy, from the cast of \"Mama I Want To Sing\""]},"provider":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["MARMIA"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["MARMIA"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/053/original/cropped-marmia-logo-copy1.png?1586173104","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/206/263/small/thumbnail_206263_1692230899.jpg?1692230903","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20240214-425865-cyz56p.mp4"]},"duration":3647.554,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/206/263/small/thumbnail_206263_1692230899.jpg?1692230903","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-marmia.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/206/263/original/open-uri20240214-425865-cyz56p.mp4?1707916587","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3647.554,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_WJZ-CTYLN-006-002.mp4 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did not create the homosexual relationship, but the heterosexual relationship. Homosexual. You are not saved in your sin. The term gay is given to that lifestyle, and that's anything but gay. How can you be gay when you're facing death from AIDS? You cannot go to heaven. You cannot be safe in homosexuality. It's 12 noon and this is a special edition of City. Hi, I'm Jackie Hall. And I'm Betty Bentley. It all seemed appropriate. The sexual revolution bringing about a strong sense of one, expressing individual sexual identity, including homosexual. But the openness of gays and lesbians and their desire to be accepted as such has been thwarted by a growing persistent fear by non gays. It's called homophobia, and today will devote most of city line to examining its origins, its intensification since the AIDS epidemic and its painful, often tragic personal effects. Joining us to discuss this widespread fear are Billy Jones of the National Coalition of Black Gays and Lesbians and Colleen Cheatham. Also, day to day on City Line, you'll meet Doris Foy, whose story has been captured in the hit musical Mama, I want to Say. But first, we'll examine the public's growing fear of gays and lesbians homophobia. Up next on City Line. Good afternoon and welcome to City Line. This is Gay Pride Week in Baltimore and I guess nationwide. And in kind of recognition of that, we are having a show called Homophobia. And our guests today are Billy Jones of the National Coalition of Black Gays and Lesbians. And Carlene Cheatham, welcome to City Line. Thank you. You know, homophobia, it's not a name or word that we know very well. How widespread is the problem of fears of fear of lesbians and gays? Well, well, how widespread is that? That's not necessarily an easy question to answer, but it's it's as widespread as we are that our culture and our society fear lesbians and gays and are ignorant of what we talk about in terms of the lesbian and gay movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=36.37,213.73"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It is as widespread as the perceptions are that heterosexuality is the norm. Now, there are fears of a lot of people and a lot of different groups and a lot of things. Why does it become a problem for homosexuals, Carlene? Probably because the society has, I think, has chosen to discriminate and based on lies. People who call themselves gay and lesbians are as natural individuals, as involved individuals, as individuals who call themselves straight. But the society perpetuates the lie by creating words like homophobia. Okay. Words like homosexual. Words like gay. Personally, I don't call myself lesbian or gay because I'm not. I am an individual who knows the virtues of Intergender affection. And I'm very comfortable with that. And I think that the community needs to look at what the society is doing to us and choose what we want to be called. Homophobia is a social disease, like is racism, and it has widespread. Okay, let's discuss the end for lack of a better term, homophobia. What type of manifestations are we talking about? What kind of reactions or actions of people are we looking at? You're talking about individuals going out on a social gathering and fearing whether or not they're going to be attacked on their way home. You're talking about people who are who have to be withdrawn in their job situation. People who have to hide who they associate with to avoid not being able to get into housing of their choice. So all almost every social area, individuals who call themselves gay or lesbian have have a problem. Now, we're going to get more into the problems that are created as a result of homophobia. But, Billy, why why would anyone fear homosexuals? Well, I think a part of the problem is, is being afraid of the unknown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=215.53,347.17"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A part of the problem is that there are so many different aspects that are bestowed upon us in saying that homosexuality is not natural. Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuality is illegal. And this has come down through the ages. And unfortunately, men and women who are not heterosexual often have had to hide the fact that they are lesbian and gay, unlike a black person that we when we are very visible. So it's not an issue that we can hide for the most part. So we therefore must deal with it visually. When we see a black person we can deal with, we're forced to acknowledge that this is a black person. When you're talking about a lesbian and gay person, that is not the situation for the most part or even, you know, you may make assumptions, but it's it's even if you assume someone is lesbian and gay, you may indeed be wrong. Ten or 15 years ago, gays and lesbians, quote unquote, came out of the closet. The movement, the popular movement started is this phenomenon again that we're calling homophobia, driving gays and lesbians back into the closet? Well, first of all, ten or 15 years ago, gays and lesbians did not come out of the closet. But at a new stage in the lesbian gay liberation movement surface and became visible and that the media took note and a revolution came about which we called the Stonewall Revolution, which is exactly a part of what we are celebrating during the. Month of June. The phenomenon of coming out is an ongoing process, and there are many individuals who are coming out and individuals come out at all stages. There are some who, from day one identify themselves as as a lesbian or a gay person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=348.91,471.76"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are some who may not become aware of the fact that they are attracted to persons of the same gender until later on. Twenties in their twenties. Thirties bodies 50, 60 or 70 or whenever. So there is no given point as to when a person may indeed come out or get in touch with that. I think the reality is that unfortunately the AIDS crisis for some persons and for some individuals have it makes it difficult for them to come out. They are afraid to come out because they will find themselves having to deal not only with the hostility against them because they are lesbian and gay, but also the hostility against them because of the fear of the AIDS crisis. Okay. I'd like to make, though, I mean, as a homosexual, it is those the small to the small word, S-E-X, that people usually identify with. And I think that's part of the problem. An individual who calls themselves and who is a homosexual, the sexual component is such a small part of the experience. I mean, we take away the fact that a person may be politically active. That person may have children. That person may in any you know, there is a full lifestyle, not just centered, focused only on the sex. They are full people. If you're not even going into the lifestyle aspect of it, but because within that word, people focus on the sex and they just distort it. We're going to take a break, but we can come back and further explore that, plus other issues that are important to the subject that we're discussing today. Please stay with us. We'll be back in just a moment. It's not a joke to David. He's the showroom manager of a tile business in San Francisco, and he's gay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=472.6,666.81"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"His lover, Matthew, works in the financial department of a major corporation. David and Matthew have been living together for four years. It's difficult for David to talk now because his broken jaw is wired shut. One evening after they'd been shopping at the supermarket, some teenagers started calling them names, saying things like, You're lucky that you're killing yourself with your AIDS before you kill the rest of us. They locked the exit of two elderly black women. They called them [Unrecognized]. And basically what it was, was you stupid black women shouldn't be shopping at a store. Were fagots are shopping. You're going to catch AIDS and die. That's when I had enough. And I went over there. The guy pushed me. David was hit from behind by two attackers. One used chain, the other a skateboard split as head. Alvin. What I saw was blood coming down the side of his space and what I thought was coming out of his ear. Fighting off the bashers, David Matthew got into their car, but as they tried to drive away, at least three people grabbed me on the passenger side and pulled me out of the car. Another one was bashing the front of the car and they hit me in the front of the head with the skateboard. I lean back up to see in front of me. David With now what was probably anywhere from 7 to 10 people at him down on the street. They were kicking him in the kidneys as he rolled one side. They were kicking him in the ribs. They had another skateboard. They were using the front edge of the skateboard to beat him in the face. Why, you guys? There is no blind date. It was aggravated. Gave them a purpose for it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=667.65,769.29"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes. Do you have AIDS? No. I've shown no signs of it at all. David doesn't either. They're not going to get it from touching us. They're not going to get it from our saliva. They're not going to get it from. Yeah. If we sneeze on them, I mean, open their eyes. It's in the paper. Read it. We are just people with the normal lives, with the up to now happy lives. How can they justifiably do this to people? The clips we're seeing are from a recent edition of 2020 ABC show. And that kind of brings back to focus something that you mentioned, Billy, the question of age and relationship of the fear, the paranoia about this disease and how that has affected society's view of gays and lesbians. I mean, I don't think it's hard to see that a movement that was moving with quite a bit of momentum began to slow. When AIDS became replaced, the gay movement in the headlines was necessary for the community to stop and figure out how do we deal with it. There were quite a few adjustments that individuals had to make. One checking medically, what status they were in. If if they did had the disease, then their whole life changed because without having a cure, they feared death and it was likely that they would die. But I think that even the social relating between the men in particular, there had to be an adjustment. And I think that the community was responsible with that within themselves, as well as educating others, the general public, about the disease. And I just like to make the point that it truly is not a gay disease. You see stories every day now where people of all spectrums, children, women, hemophiliacs, have AIDS.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=769.38,891.38"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And if because it is a public medical problem, I think it's necessary for people to put themselves above their perception of that being a gay disease and really look at it because it can be widespread. It's I do want to emphasize that the the AIDS crisis and gays are not synonymous. And unfortunately, even by addressing the issue of homophobia and then bring it in the issue of AIDS, we're playing into that in reality. So, I mean, we are already playing in. But that is a perception. It is a perception we can't ignore. What we need to do and that perception is coming from the reality that the AIDS virus is transmitted by blood and by semen now and other if you look at the AIDS picture overall, internationally, universally, you'd have to I mean, it comes down to it's very clear that the heterosexual community is affected as much as the homosexual community. The female population is affected as much as the male population working very rationally. Yes. Okay. We're talking very rationally about about an issue that is very emotional with a lot of people. It should be emotional. But we I mean, you cannot help but get emotional about it when you are talking about the reality that 10,000 people have died from AIDS. So so so it's unfortunately, we're we're becoming emotional but not dealing with the crisis itself. What we're doing right now is panic. And what what we are not doing is educating the people as to about the virus and about what to do about the virus. And we're not providing the types not only we're not providing educational program, we're also not providing the proper social service now. But again, it is the hysteria, the paranoia. And so I'm wondering whether or not do you feel that perhaps there is a group of folk out there who have a fear of and a hatred for gays that are using perhaps the AIDS crisis as an excuse to hate? Homosexuals and justifiably so, and also using it as an excuse to either beat up or murder homosexuals, Of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=892.22,1042.79"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, that's that's definitely the case. And it's also happening before the eighties. It also it was also happening before the AIDS epidemic became real. Homosexuals were still getting beat up. People making fun of them. But is it increasing? The incidence of violence is definitely increasing in terms of violence against gay men. It's definitely increasing and it's coming from just ignorance and fear. The incidence of homophobia in terms of being rejected, the the blatant forms of discrimination that gay men are beginning to experience is very, very real. And it's on the increase. What is important, I think, in terms of education is to point out that in the United States, gay men are a high risk population in terms of the AIDS virus. But we are not the only high risk population. You also have to look at IV drug users. You also have to look at prostitutes. But I think a part of it, too, is that as more and more research becomes available and the results become more clear and conclusive, I think we'll we'll know exactly where we are in the whole process. But, Jackie, we've got some folks chomping at the bit out here, so we're going to get them involved in this discussion. One question, homophobia is real. But how or why is a relationship started between two of the same sex? Is it insecurity or is it a lack of finding affection with the opposite sex? Let me put it this way. If if you can explain the why of a heterosexual relationship. And if you can answer that that give that same answer to the why a homosexual relationship. The point is being the point being that one's affection is not restricted to a gender. For example, a child will love both his mother and father.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1043.22,1165.22"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A child will express his or her affection for men. Women want that and will continue that form of expression until our society, our culture tells that child that it is taboo. But that does not change the emotional internal aspect of how that feels to what his or her mother and dad, brothers and sisters. So, I mean, what we're talking about is what our society controls and says this is no and this is a yes versus what is real and internal, if I might. But there are but there are some people, for instance, from the very first clip that we use from the 2020 show that go back to the Bible and say that this is unnatural, it is not normal because it isn't in the Bible. The Lord, you know, did not say it. So in a way, you're explaining it that way. How do you respond to those people who use the Bible as the reasoning? Well, one, I turn to another minister as well, So I want to make clear I that is not my area of expertise. And so because of that, I refrained from that. For me, I go by my feeling and my personal feeling is that any expression of love, of genuine love and affection is not a is not wrong, is not immoral. I would also add to that that the Lord will make the judgment and they are not the Reverend Falwell or whomever do not are not in a position to judge individuals. And if they follow the Lord's word, they wouldn't be commenting the way that they are. Again, they're perpetuating the lie. They have created that lie. They have told us that we're not we're bad, we're indecent. And also the good stuff. Not true here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1165.7,1280.12"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not true here, Not true here. You should point out, I mean, we have not always translated the Bible correctly. Keep in mind that many of the same people who today are saying that the lesbian and gay relationship are wrong at one point said interracial relationships were wrong. I mean, you know, I mean, we can back up to many types of relationship that the Bible said was wrong. Okay. We're going to try to get into some of those relationships in just a minute. We've got to take a break right now. We'll be back in just a minute. We walk past this large crowd of guys and we started hearing comments like, Oh, look, it's a cute gay couple. Finally, meet Tom and Jan Maharishi, married and living with their baby in Brooklyn, New York, and among a growing number of straights who have been attacked because the bashers assumed they were gay. Jan's tomboy looks probably led to the incident. It gave this couple a personal view of anti-gay violence. And Tommy said, Why don't you unbutton, you jerk, and show these jerks you're a woman. So we kick it out of here. So I did. And we turned around and I saw Tom being punched and he got a blow to his temple and thrown up against a car. And then I got close to the front of the car, and he punched me, started punching me in the face. Over here, you feel you got some insights into homophobia because of this? Yeah. We had no idea of how widespread it was. It's on every level. How do you feel when people say, Look at that gay couple? Well, we used to laugh. Now we realize how heavy the implications are. Now we know that the gay community does go through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1280.45,1519.96"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The topic is homophobia. We're talking with Billy Jones and Carlene Cheatham. And we also have a member of our audience with a comment. Yes. My name is Goldie Mason. I'm co-chair of the Black Lesbian and Gay Coalition here in Baltimore, and I'm also on the national board. And one of the comments I wanted to make in reference to homophobia is that it's a sickness of ignorance, because the only time anyone wants to imply violence on you is only if they know that you are homosexual. And the fact is, when do the sickness come about? Does it come about when they first recognize the fact that this is actually actually a homosexual or I believe that it is a homosexual? The thing is, is that homosexuals have been in the foreground of many of the movements. They are basically your leaders here in Baltimore City. We are basically leaders. We are here. We are constantly change, making changes in our own society. We'll never be recognized for these changes. But here we have released the cheese and by the program, when the government closed things and we have changed around the transit system here with the subway, we do so many things and never once have anybody talk about the good things that we do in society. We may live in fear because people will want to beat up on us because of sexuality, but we don't live in fear wanting to make the world a better place. We are constantly on the move, constantly there. We don't always make it the issue, Hey, I am gay and I want to not to beat up the elderly lady. We are there to say stop. We won't tolerate it. But there's this. Thank you for the comment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1522.3,1618.33"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Does this tie in with what you were saying earlier, calling about the fact that you are total human beings and that you make contributions, you're involved in the community in question? I think you stated it very nicely, but it goes back to the point we are we are we are complete individuals. Anybody. Sexuality is not the dominance of who they are as people. Let me ask you another question. The two of you are on the air right now. You're on television. Black and gay, Black and homosexual, though you don't like labels, let's let's use a just for reference in for discussion. Oh, you're looking at Carling. What is it like for you? Is that a double whammy for you being black and homosexual? Well, for me, on a personal level, I'm very comfortable with my blackness and I'm very comfortable with my goodness. And I. However, I have not always been comfortable with my gayness. That is something that I've had to work with and I've had to deal with. And yet there are situations when I get very nervous, when I am threatened physically, and yes, when I am physically threatened, and I have to be prepared to deal with that. I mean, I it is not uncommon for me to have to make a decision, for example, whether it is appropriate for me to wear a t shirt with a gay political message on it. I should not have to process that, whether that's appropriate. What about you, Carling? I'm black, you're black. You're I live in I live in a racist society. I am a woman. Yes. I live in a sexist society. I know intergender fiction. I live in a homophobic society and I'm not bothered by any of it because I choose not to be bothered by any of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1618.84,1733.48"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm a strong individual and if I don't accept discrimination. I challenge it. Now, I will also say that I just moved from DC where it was the law that you could not discriminate. And as it's as time goes on, as people organize themselves within the community, you will have more laws. It's not going to be an easy way to go. What about the reality of discrimination, let's say, in the workplace or in the housing or any other areas against you as black homosexuals? The reality is that the discrimination exists, however, and that discrimination will continue to exist until lesbian and gays can reach the point that they can become visible. Because once individuals realize that they have worked with lesbians and gays are familiar with many victims of discrimination. Yes, I have. I have. I I've actually lost a job because of because of the fact that I was gay. I my position now is I simply would not take a position without informing my potential employer that I am a gay person. And if that's an issue, I would not work in that particular setting. Now, not everyone is going to take that particular position because you are talking about an issue of survival. And if it comes down to taking a political stance versus surviving something, many individuals, I said, well, I have to survive, so I will not deal with that particular issue. Now, the fact that we don't deal with it does not mean that it's not an internal turmoil for that particular person. I tried to get our audience back in this. Yes, sir. Yes. My name is Curtis Jones. I'm a recent graduate and one of the things I had to do to fulfill my requirements for graduation was to do a report on AIDS and the homosexual environment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1733.87,1850.1"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the significant thing that I found out was that despite the deadly disease of AIDS, you would think that would cause a significant decrease in homosexuality and in gays. I ask you, due to a popular magazine, it suggested that there was no decrease, in fact, a slight increase in homosexuality. I ask you, why is it that aids something as deadly as there hasn't the term hasn't become a large deterrent for you? And why is it still increasing the AIDS virus, the presence of any disease that not determine the relationship or the percentage of of any population? I mean, the fact that cancer exists does not mean we stop being heterosexual. I mean, so I want to make that clear. We make individuals may stop being sexually active, but that does not mean they are not gay, not a lesbian person. So you need to distinguish between one's sexual orientation versus one's sexual behavior versus one's lifestyle. I mean, all of these are different phenomena and that we put together and think of as one. So what you I mean, it's unrealistic that that we're going to stop being gay men and lesbians, women. What is going to have an impact on homophobia? What is going to change it is anything a number of things legislation, education, visibility. All of those factors combined together. Also, there's a need for solidarity, and that is when I talk about solidarity, what we currently call the lesbian gay movement has to become. We have to talk about it in terms of coalition and networking, and that is working with other progressive movements that are not only addressing the issue of homophobia, but also addressing the issue of racism, classism, sexism, ageism, and all forms of oppression. And not only in terms of lesbian and gay is doing that type of solidarity work, but other progressive workers working with us to address homophobia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1851.51,1995.06"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, another comment. My name is Irvin Conway. I'm the chairman of the Baltimore Civic Interest Group. We are basically a human rights organization and we fight for all people's rights. I've been finding and I would like you to comment on this, Billy. It seems to be the preachers, ministers who are perpetrating the homophobia, and many of them who do this are gay themselves. You think about that. It's good. Well, first of all, I, I, I understand why you feel that way, but I don't agree with it. Okay. I think. The homophobia has been perpetuated by everyone. And to the to the extent that we see ministers like Jerry Falwell and other ministers talking about how condemnations, what are gays, we also have very, very supportive ministers who are doing just the opposite. And it has always been that type of effect that is also professionalism. And we can talk about the medical profession and point to individuals. We can talk about Dr. Cameron and other persons who are doing the exact type of negative ness. But I think from from the black community perspective, we we do hear being projected probably more from the black ministers that homosexuality is a sin or that is a natural part of it is we haven't done our homework there to educate them. Calling you had a comment to make on that very issue. I just wanted to say that he made the example that a minister may very well be homosexual and is putting it down at it's part of the society advancing the lie that's out there. Why would you feel? Why do you feel that? It is the part. It's the church that's perpetuating this. Have you? I've seen it done personally many times. And by me being an active civil rights person in the city, I get many people calling me about advice on various things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=1995.99,2127.09"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And homophobia is one of the biggest things that we have here in the city of Baltimore. I know several people who have lost jobs and and, you know, you hear people making gay jokes or lesbian jokes and putting gay people down. And and and, you know, if they are supported by the ministers, they feel safe doing it. Have you been personally the victim of any kind of discrimination on the part of maybe the religious community or the world community? No. Like the sister said there, I will not allow anyone to discriminate against me for any reason. I think one of the things that's happening to me as blacks are very spiritual persons. I mean, our roots have very strong religious conviction. So as lesbians and gays, it hurts us to have a minister stand up and do this hell and damnation stuff. And when our gut feeling tells us that it ain't so. I mean, that's the reality. So that's where it's coming from. The reality is that the ministers and other professionals must take a more aggressive, progressive role in terms of undoing homophobia. Okay. On that note, we're going to take a break right now. Hopefully. When we come back, we'll get some final comments and see where we go from here. Stay with us. And. Back to the line with our final segment and our discussion on homophobia with Billy Jones and Carlene Cheatham. You know, we've been talking about homophobia, the fear of homosexuals and so forth, and we've talked about discrimination. I guess in a sense. We've been saying, you know, in terms of the general community, the employing community, the the religious community or so forth. Let me narrow in just a little bit. Is there much discrimination of homosexuals by other blacks? Yes, there is, particularly within the family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2127.39,2345.42"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I know in D.C. a lot of individuals who live in D.C. were very much in the closet because I know their family did not accept it, which also helped those I mean, it negatively helped those individuals would be homophobic themselves. It's very difficult when your parents don't let you be all that you are or you have to restrict your behavior or who you are because of that. And it's very heavy within the black community, within the black family. What about in the general? Black community are not related. It is my feeling that homophobia is rampant in all cultures the black community, the Latino community, the white community. I believe that a part of what we're experiencing when we feel that homophobia is perhaps greater in the black community, I'm not convinced that it is as that we have to acknowledge that the so-called lesbian gay movement, as it had progressed, did not deal with people of color. For example, the mainstream lesbian gay organization dealt with white society. For example, every profession, every mainstream white professional organization has a lesbian gay caucus in it. And that legislative work was done. Educational work was done while black and Latino and Asian and Native American professional organizations and communities were ignored. And we are now, 20 years later, having to go back and do what should have been done as the movement because of the issue of racism. And that is, people that were involved in the movement have that had their own personal interests. It was an one issue type movement initially. We've just gotten to the point where we acknowledge that we must deal with multiple issue blacks for black lesbians and gays, for the most part, straight out of the lesbian gay movement, because I cannot deal with an activist organization that's only going to deal with gay issues because I'm more than that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2346.65,2473.97"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we've just gotten there. Now, let me ask you another question before we conclude our discussion. And it has to do with. AIDS and its impact on the gay rights movement. What do you think it has done to the gay rights movement? Where is it now? Well, first of all, the movement is not stagnating. I mean, the movement is still there. And we must keep going because if we don't, there will be referendums. And so we have to keep going. So that's 11.. The the the AIDS crisis means that we we have we have a new aspect in which we must work on and we must work on it collectively. But hasn't it has it adversely affected it? Not and given cause not to pass certain laws? Well, yes, it makes our struggle more difficult at the moment because people, the society as a whole in America are definitely seeing AIDS and gay as being synonymous. Yes. Is there any reason and this is not at all to belittle in any argument or discussion for any reason why the question of the issue of homophobia or gay lesbian issues should be handled any differently or thought about any differently than the issues of racism, than the issues of of cultural discrimination. Is there anything that makes it stand out? I think it needs to be spelled out, but. Oppression is oppression is oppression, regardless of whether it's sexism, racism, homophobia. However, it is important that we talk about lesbian gay issues and that we talk about homophobia or we will get lost in this revolution. So we must spell it out. We must say what we are talking about. You may not like this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Is it easier for you to just simply not tell anybody what your sexual preference is and go on about your life generally? Generally, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2474.63,2599.24"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, why doesn't one do it? Because. Why should I not be all that I am? And I don't go around telling people that I know the virtues of Intergender affection. If they ask, I'll tell them. But very often I'll be in an environment. People say, Oh, I didn't know you were. You didn't ask me to go to bed or something, you know. And if you're not talking sexually, then we're not talking about that. It's also an issue of consciousness is an issue of comfort. And so it's an issue of my emotional, psychological well-being. It's a reality that if we live in a society in which heterosexuals can wear their wedding band affectionate, they talk about their wives and their children can kiss wherever, then everyone in our society should be able to do that with whomever their partner may be. Are gays any better off now than they were ten, 20 years ago? It sounds like President Reagan's question. We've come a long way, baby, and we have a long way to go. Yes, we come out and we're not going back. And I hope that in time we will be accepted as full human beings. I will continue to advocate the virtues of Intergender affection. As a woman, it's a very natural thing for me to relate to women. For me to like women from because we have our common bonds. Now, I also am lucky enough to be able to sleep with a woman. And I like that. And I hope that that that that's supposed to be private. And I hope that in time the society will put it in its proper place. Billy, as we close, we have about 30 seconds left. I think it's important to point out that when we talk about lesbians and gays or intergender affection, we're talking about the reality that we are present in every race.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2600.53,2718.37"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We're present in every socioeconomic level, every profession, every culture, every country. And we have been here since day one and will be here to the very last day. So it's an issue that we just must deal with. Okay. And we thank you for having come by City Line to deal with it today, especially during Gay Pride week or month, depending on where you are in the country. Thank you so much, Billy Jones, Carlene Cheatham. We'll be back in just a moment with a special interview with Doris Troy of Mama I Want to Sing. Now, here's this week's community calendar. Hello, I'm Andre Lucas, and you were invited to a scholarship fundraiser on Sunday, June the 15th at the 32nd Street Plaza. From 5 p.m. until 10 p.m., the Lucas dramatic players will present a dramatic comedy, The Love of Nick and Hazel. The evening will also feature the vocal trio Destiny, from the famed Apollo Theater, accompanied by coast to coast and dazzling fashion provided by the Lucas exclusive models. Proceeds will benefit the Lucas Youth production. So this Father's Day make it the 32nd Street Plaza for ticket information, Call 7923932. Hello, my name is Andrew Jones and this time is Baptist Church proudly announces the opening of its Christian school this coming September. But prekindergarten through grade three, the school will offer a state accredited certified curriculum, qualified staff, small classes, foreign language and a computerized learning center. Registration is now being held for the first 60 students. For more information about the school, which will be located at 40 5010 Frederick Road, call the New Thomas Baptist Church at 8374616. If your group or organization would like to announce an event, please write us in care of City Line. WJC TV Television Guild, Baltimore, Maryland 212, one one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2719.33,2947.78"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or call us for further information at 46600013. Between the hours of nine and five. Welcome back. As I mentioned earlier, we have a very special treat for you this afternoon. With us right now is Miss Doris Troy, who's star of the show. Mama, want to sing? Hi. Good afternoon. Welcome. Welcome to Baltimore. Thank you. Your first time here? No, it's not my first time. He obviously has several years ago, and I have my record just for Look. Okay. And I came here with B.B. King, the Drifters and a good guy. Yeah, one of those days shows like that. Tell us about. I want to say it's about you. Oh, yes. Passes by Higginson and her husband, Ken White, where they wrote it and they directed it. Produced it. And yes, it's about my life story has started out as a little girl in the church. And then I wanted to go out in the world and be one of those rhythm and blues singers or pop singers, you know, and have my mother say she didn't want me to go, you know, And what happened to my life is quite interesting. So she wanted you to stay closer to gospel music? That's right. That's right. What were her objections? Just beyond. No, I don't want you to sing secular. First of all, out in the world, that's where all the evil is. I mean, we all the you know, no knows are you know what I'm saying to the people that I saw on the other side of the fence? And I really did have a strong Christian. Upbringing. My father was a minister. In fact, I didn't go to the movies till I have six and a half years old. I mean, we were very strict in my house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2948.53,3053.35"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was very church all that way, you know? So what did you do? You sign? Did you back your mother? And. Well, I tell you what. I go ahead and do it. Or what? There's a theater in New York City called the Apollo Theater. Okay. I went to that Apollo Theater and I saw my first stage show and went crazy. I had to be on that stage. So I went and I lied. And not a big lie, but a little light. And I said that I was 18 years old so I could get a job as an actor. It but in the flashlight, the uniform. And that way I was able to see all the shows for free and get paid $23.52 a week for six days. And my mother had a fit, and one day she came around me and she took me out of that theater. She said, No, this is not for you. So even off from there, you'll see I've met your mother and she doesn't seem all that well. And furthermore, the role I play in the play, it's her. And she's no way like the way I play it. You know what I mean? I told them, I said, Well, Mom, I can make you big of if I want to go on the stage. She's like, real quiet and very sweet and everything, but she just give you one look, baby. And, you know, she's never played, you know? But in the theater, I'm very vocal. You know, I say crazy things like, I brought you here and I will take you out. So I was like, Bill, come. So it's really a fun show. And I you know, I hope everybody in Baltimore will get a chance to see it, which it's really fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=3053.71,3138.52"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay. Well, for those who haven't gotten out to see it yet, I believe we have a small clip of the show that we're going to see right now. So if you just watch your set and enjoy a little bit of mama, I want to say, oh, that. They. A young lady who plays you in the production? Well, we have several dances. We have one named Lori Creighton, another one, Ramona Keller, and a new girl we find in Washington. Her name is Hedrick, and each one is just as hot as the next one. Who is the one that we saw here? She's in New York City and she'll be out on the road with us after June. Okay. I need to ask you, how does it feel seeing someone play you? And then the other side of the question is, how do you feel playing your mother? Who is playing you? Well, you know, the word playing, that's exactly what we're doing. We are playing and we are having fun. That's what the word play mean. You going out to having a good time and making other people feel good? So that's what it's all about. I mean, I go to work early. I mean, I don't know how many people do have jobs out there that go to work out early. I get to I sit back and relax. I get used to my dressing room. I set my little stuff up and I'm right at home. In fact, I entertain backstage more than anyone else. Meet me at the theater, you know? So it's really good. Like you're having fun. I am. I really am. Is it a big difference being on stage in this type of production as opposed to as a singer? Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=3138.94,3331.38"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, yes, it's a it's a big difference. First of all, it is more demanding. Number one, when I do my shows in Las Vegas, I have the choice of pick and choose I want to do before I go out there and do this. But here, you know what you got to do every night Now my sneaker line and or my, you know, do a little tearing or something. But basically, we have to stick to the script. And a couple of times I go past it. And because it's a family affair, I get away with it. Now, we only saw a very small clip, but there is an awful lot of energy. There is energy maintained throughout. From the moment we start, the music never stops. I mean, somewhere in there you'll hear music on the line. And I mean, that minister of music, he is is fantastic. He's a butterball. I mean, he jumps and he shouts. I mean, you see something that you've never seen before and something that you recognize from your life experience. I mean, this is really our experience. How long are you going to do this show? Indefinite. I think it's a 20 year project. For a start. I can go on and on and on. I mean, they want us to come to Japan. We're definitely going to Europe. We already booked for Los Angeles in August. We will leave from here. We're going to Detroit. Then we're going to. I think they want us in Cleveland somewhere, but I know we'll be traveling for quite a while. And now it goes. I'm going now, Mama, I want to sing. Has the distinction of being the longest running black non off-Broadway ever. Ever. That's right. Why the staying power? Well, people like it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=3331.54,3418.09"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not only that, people come back time and time again. I mean, first of all, it's a phenomena first of all, not first of all, but second of all, this is the fact that is no violence is no sex, is no drugs. But still, it's a good show. It sounds like a lot of. Yeah. And so a lot of people can come see older people can come to senior citizens and their kids come through, bring their children, and people have come back time and time again. Doris Joy, thank you so much. Thank you. Keep enjoying it. And we're going to keep enjoying mine, I want to say. All right. We'll be back in just a minute, please. Okay. A lot to say. In a few seconds. You got to watch going, Mom, I want to say, here's the Lyric Theater. Theater through this month, the 15th. Exactly. And try to see it if you can. Now, next week's show, meet the candidates of the seventh Congressional District. Right. All of them. All of them for seat reservations. You want to give us a call here at the station? 481 1313. I got it right this week and digital. That's our show for today. Thanks for being with us. See you next time. I'm Betty. Betty. I'm Jacki Hog. Have a good Sunday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=3418.75,3550.78"}]},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/transcript/48914/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/048/914/original/open-uri20230817-377875-ygd3mt?1692236128","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/048/914/original/open-uri20230817-377875-ygd3mt?1692236128"}]},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Homophobia; Cast of Mamma I Want To Sing, 1986-06-08 02-14-2024 17:56 [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":" Homophobia clip","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=37.0,161.0"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Guest interview","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=161.0,662.0"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Carlene Cheetam, Gay and Lesbian Rights Activist; A. Billy S. Jones, National Coalition of Black Gays","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=161.0,662.0"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"20/20 clip","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=662.0,2965.0"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Guest interview","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2965.0,3151.0"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Doris Troy, Cast of Mama I Want To Sing","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=2965.0,3151.0"},{"id":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263/index/82405/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Clip of Mama I Want To Sing","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://marmia.aviaryplatform.com/collections/948/collection_resources/105502/file/206263#t=3151.0"}]}]}]}